Posts by Reefton Jack

3

Are Witness policies {disfellowshiping} the same as Communist policies??

by Witness 007 in

if you compare the watchtower org.

and communist ideals how different were they?.

communist = stalin {knorr} made the laws and decidied who wen't into exile, and who lived or died.

Reefton Jack

Having just finished reading Robert Payne's "The Rise and Fall of Stalin"; there are many disturbing similarities.

Apart from those already mentioned on this thread, other similarities include mandatory attendance at boring, mind-numbing Political Meetings that drone on far into the night.
Amongst the Communist Party Faithful, it was also compulsory for children to attend those same meetings:
- where much was absorbed, but little opportunity given to evaluate.

Still, what can you expect from two systems which had very little to do with reality:
- One based on a Theory of Economics that proved to be flawed in practice.
- The other based on the screw-brained ideas of a Book Publishing Company?

10

What were the witnesses beliefs in 1973?

by Paralipomenon in

jw
friends

well the time has come.

i no longer have any motivation to keep up with a fade.

my wife is out, my kids were never really in and we're moving on.

Reefton Jack

1)You could still talk to disfellowshipped people, but be wary of those that were active apostates.
- Actually, no; things were modified the following year (1974) only to be reversed in 1981.
In '73, you definitely could NOT talk to a disfellowshipped person.

2) Pioneers needed to get 90 hours a month, Aux. Pioneers needed 70.
- In 1973, Regular Pioneers were required to achieve 100 hours per month.
I know, as I started "Regular Pioneering" in September of that year.

Otherwise, paralipomenon, your summary sounds right!
(It brings back a few memories, also - but not many of them very good ones).

Jack.

61

How to stump someone that believes the noah's flood happened.

by 5go in

one of the key peices of evidence that people sight to try to prove the flood happen is the fact the most cultures have a flood myth or story as they put it.. i was just watching a program that also points out the most, if not all cultures believe in dragons.

even cultures that evolve in isolation have beliefs in dragons and they are all simular though not the same.

just like the flood myth.. so if they believe the flood happened because so many cultures have flood stories.

Reefton Jack

The origin of both legends - the Global Flood, and Dragons - makes for an interesting
discussion!
However, the legends about dragons are not quite in the league of being a "Stumper" for disproving that there was a flood of some sort.
- There is probably a grain of truth in both ideas.

A person could argue that legends about dragons have their origins in the dinosaurs or other reptiles
- in a similar manner as the legend of the Unicorn had its origins in the Narwhal.
(The legend of St George slaying a dragon apparently came from a Roman Soldier
- presumably named George! - killing a crocodile at some place in the Middle East).

Similarly, the prevalence of legends about a flood could indicate that, early in the history of the human race, there was a catastrophe involving water.
(Though whether it was literally as the bible says, and flooded the entire surface of the planet, is another matter!)

PS: wherehasmyhairgone (a question I often ask myself!)
- JCanon's mention of tropical forests under the Antarctic ice is probably referring to the fact that coal has been found in Antarctica.
Coal, of course, is derived from ancient tropical vegetation - indicating that at some time in the past, Antarctica's climate was vastly different from the present day.
(I am not suggesting that this is proof of a global flood, of course).

73

What "Unwritten Rules" Did Your Congregation Have?

by minimus in

jw
friends

i knew of a hall that allowed only white shirted speakers on the platform for sunday public talks!

when a visiting speaker did not wear the official white shirt he was either told that he couldn't give the talk or he could change shirts,as the hall kept a variety of sizes, just in case of an emergency!!!

i don't make this up.

Reefton Jack

As far as two-door cars go, I had never heard of any big thing being made about that, until I started reading this Discussion Board.
Also, early on,the congregation did have a bit of a thing about coloured shirts:
- until the Circuit Servant (as he was then known as) turned up wearing one.
Hey Presto - End of the Matter!

The wearing of suit coats, though, was something else again.
It did not matter how high the temperatures were, while out in service, the elders insisted that you had to keep your jacket on.
All that achieved was to give members of the public even more reason to believe that JWs were all nutcases!

Jack.

46

How Being a Witness made you Lose out on Higher Education and Careers

by flipper in

jw
friends

hi, folks.

been thinking of this, because of having been raised in the witnesses.

i reflect back on opportunities i would have encountered and seized, had it not been for being controlled by the witness organization being told higher education was not needed.

Reefton Jack

I,too, really love the WTS over this one!
When I was 16, they had sufficient pull with my parents to not only stop me from going to university - but also to stop me from completing the final year of high school as well.

Then, a year later they got me to abandon my apprenticeship as a Telecommunications Technician. After all, the Big A (read 1975) was just a year or two away over the horizon!

Later on, I did complete what would now be called a "Mature Age Apprenticeship" as an Electrical Fitter.
Oh boy - did some in the congregation have the daggers out for me because I did that!
By then, though, I had learned enough about what was really what to take no notice of that sort of criticism.

These days, I manage a power station in a malarial jungle clearing, somewhere on the other side of the proverbial "Black Stump" (actually, on the other side of the
Torres Strait).

Anywhere else, you would have to have at least an Associate Diploma of Engineering to even be considered for a job like this.
For somebody who is just a busted a*&s# electrician, you have to be prepared to go and work in the sump-hole of the world, if you are aspiring to a management-type
position.

At least this way, I can look forward to some sort of retirement in a few years time:
- whereas beforehand, I could look forward only to having to keep working until I fell dead at my work bench!

Oh yes - it is truly "Choosing the Best Way of Life", as they entitled one of their books in the 1970s.

Jack.

22

If ur child died,would u visit the grave and always "talk" to them?

by fedorE in

although i still have doubts there is life after death, i believe i would be hanging on to every last vestige of my son that i could and that means talking to him.

talking into the air and crying.

realizing this is his final resting place.

Reefton Jack

I don't know about talk to them.

After my son died in an accident nine years ago, his body was cremated and the ashes scattered over a wide area - so it is not possible to even visit the location.

My father died a year or so later, and while his body was also cremated, the ashes were scattered in
one location.
I often visit the site where my father's ashes are scattered - but I don't quite go to the extent of
talking to him!

That's just me, but I can certainly understand those that would carry out a conversation with / at the grave of a family member.

10

Doing Good Humane things for Other People- Why Jw's Won't Notice It

by flipper in

jw
friends

one thing that always bothered me when i was a witness, was that the main thing you were admired for was how much time you got in the service each month, how many times you commented at meetings, whether you hung out with " spiritual " people, and your approval was based on how you were advancing in the faith based on your position, regular or auxilarry pioneer, ministerial servant or elder.

if you weren't any of those things, even if you did good to or for others, it was not noticed.

if joe publisher sitting in the corner went and mowed sister old ladies yard in 100 degree heat out of love it was not emphasized, because it didn't really fit in with the agenda the elders or governing body deems important as being for the advancement of kingdom interests.

Reefton Jack

It largely comes down to a case of you tend to get what you are always harping on about:
- If you are forever bashing the R&F up about that column on the Monthly Report form entitled "HOURS",
- If you are forever making everyone feel guilty that they are not doing "enough"
(As I am sure happened to all of us)
- Then, not surprisingly, the "HOURS" column is all that anyone will be interested in.

While with the JWs, I could never figure out those that reckoned that they were drawn to "the truth" by nothing other than the love they saw in the congregations.
(Believe it or not, I did know some individuals who claimed that)

- I thought at the time that there must have been a point somewhere that I had missed!

26

Anyone recall the WTS's crazy notions about the literal "heart"?

by fahrvegnugen in

back in my dub days, i used to make copies of all the old recorded talks i could get my hands on.

in the process i was surprised to come across several talks in which the "faithful slave" tried to make the case that all the scriptures talking about the "heart" were not figurative, but referred to one's literal heart--the organ itself!

as i recall, they even incorporated some pseudo-scientific quotes as "proof" that the heart could effect your thoughts and motivations.

Reefton Jack

That District Assembly in 1971 ("Divine Name", I seem to remember being its title) was the first one that I ever attended.

So, yes - I well remember all that nonsense about the literal heart being the generator of ones emotions.
To an impressionable sixteen year old, what they seemed to be saying was that the heart muscle has a mind of its own!:
- That was certainly the idea that I got, after coming away from that assembly, anyway.

And also, I recall a lot being said about that nerve that interconnects the brain to the heart.
(Although that may have been said following the "Divine Name" assembly)

However, what I remember even more vividly was a few years afterward, when I got all tangled up trying to explain this pseudo-science to somebody else!
In retrospect, no bloody wonder!

Jack.

24

Did You See Brothers Use Politics to Reach Out For M/S or Elder Positions?

by flipper in

jw
friends

hello folks.

valid question i believe.

in the early 80's 1979 to 1985 i was a m/s and stepped down after having 3 kids bang, bang, bang in late 20's.

Reefton Jack

You definitely have to be part of the congregation's Inner Clique before you can expect any chance of being appointed.
Being a "pioneer" gives you almost guaranteed entry to that clique, as does being the son or son-in-law of an elder.
Without either of those advantages, though, entry is strictly limited by who you know.

The first time I was appointed an MS, it was without even trying:
- I was a Regular Pioneer, and thus very much in the good books of the Body of Elders.

The second time around took a bloody long time to come about:
- as groveling to others never came easily to me!

Jack.

46

You Need To Give Credit To The Society For Your Education

by The wanderer in

jw
friends

you need to give credit to the society for your education.the watchtower and awake magazines have been helping individuals receive a g.e.d .

or high school diploma.

where did you learn the art of public speaking?

Reefton Jack

The education given by the Watchtower Society DOES qualify a person for a degree:

- A Bachelor of Stupidity!